Darcy Bradley

Dear Colleagues and Friends,  

Welcome to our 3^rd Conversation with the Authors! This month’s topic is WRITING AND WRITING
 INSTRUCTION: HELPING YOUR STUDENTS WRITE WITH PURPOSE AND AUDIENCE IN MIND… 

Allow me to introduce Jan Turbill and Wendy Bean, our friends in literacy learning from Australia.
Jan is a Senior Lecturer in the Faculty of Education at the University of Wollongong, Australia, who has
written many books and articles. Her research interests range from early literacy development to the
professional development of teachers. Most recently she has been looking at how technology can be used
in early literacy and as a medium for staff development. Here is certainly one way we are using
technology for some staff development through this listserve conversation!  

Wendy is a well known educator, speaker, and consultant in the area of literacy instruction. She has
written  books and articles, especially with a focus on spelling and how it is situated in reading and
writing. She has taught in the Australian school system for many years, worked with the government
on literacy issues, and designed and implemented a number of professional development courses and
opportunities for teachers. Wendy and Jan are just delightful to work with as authors, teachers, and
thinkers. 

Jan and Wendy’s most recent book is Writing Instruction K-6: Understanding Process, Purpose,
Audience, published by Richard C. Owen Publishers in 2006. We continue to receive many positive
comments from both college professors and teachers as readers groups about this book and its
contribution to improving writing instruction. Thank you, Jan and Wendy, for writing such a helpful book
for both novice and experienced teachers.  

We’ve already received several meaty questions, and we will try to get all of them answered. As before,
we hope that participants will pose their own questions, make comments and suggestions, and consider
Jan’s and/or Wendy’s responses. We have appreciated the level of professionalism and appropriateness
in our last two conversations and no doubt this one will offer the same considerations. Don’t forget that
Jan and Wendy are in a different day and time zone! For example, as I post this, it is 9:33 PM PST on
Saturday, January 20;  but it is 4:33 PM on Sunday, January 21 in New South Wales where Jan and
Wendy live! So, we will be pleased to get their responses any time they are awake and sentient!  

OK! Here is the first question for you, Jan and Wendy! We also understand that you do not live in the
same cities, so we will be happy to hear from either or both of you, as it works for you:  

You’ve both had many years of experiences working with student and teacher writers, and
as writers yourselves. What are some of the enduring lessons about writing you’ve learned
along the way? 

I remind our participants that you can visit this landing page, if you wish to read more about the book,
a chapter, the table of contents, or order the book: http://69.0.129.106/TLNSolutions3.htm 

I also remind our readers that after this discussion, which ends on Thursday, January 25 (US), we will
provide a full transcript of the discussion that you can download for free.  

And as a bonus, there will soon be a STUDY GUIDE available for the book soon. I will let you know when
it is available!!

Looking forward to thinking more deeply about writing, writers, and writing instruction with all of you
this week!  

Cordially,   

Darcy H. Bradley, Ph.D.
Acquisitions Editor for Education Materials
Richard C. Owen Publishers, Inc.  

360-592-3001 PST or (msg) 800-262-0787 (9-5 EST)
mail me directly at: darcybradley@eartlink.net
visit our website at: http://www.rcowen.com/ 

Wendy Bean

Hello,

Thanks for the introduction Darcy. I expect that as we go to bed here tonight many of you will be
thinking about this question too. It has been so hot today I am exhausted...over 100 degrees.  I will
begin with a few thoughts and write more tomorrow!

Your question is a great one, Darcy...and hard to answer simply. After so many years in education my
learnings are many. When I started teaching (many years ago) we did not expect children to write at
all in their first year of school and to write one correct sentence in the second year! So one of the first
things I learned was about expectations! Not to push children but to have high expectations and to
create an environment where it is possible for children to write and be supported. I also learned early
on that audience and purpose was important and to teach this in a classroom is sometimes difficult -
not all audiences and purposes will be meaningful to all children. My learning about this aspect of
writing is ongoing.

If you have our book you will see some extraordinary writing from children featured in Chapter 6—it is
all genuine. Much of the teaching comes before the writing begins. The children in that school write
often and so well, it was (and is) a wonderful place to spend time. The teacher learned about audience
and purpose but that was just a modification to her existing excellent teaching of literacy. The other
aspect of that particular classroom is the wonderful relationship the teacher has with the children. We
can talk about writing but there are so many other things that have to be in place to create a good
learning space. Relationships are always important but particularly so in the writing classroom.

I think since I have been a writer myself I have become a better teacher of writing. I understand the
time it takes, that sometimes it is hard and sometimes you think you will never finish but despite that I
like to write. I think the more I write, the better I am at talking to children about writing and helping
them see what is at the end of the struggle. I get better and better at modeled writing too as the ‘talk’
that goes with the writing is focused and I am better able to articulate what I am doing.  

Wendy
 

Jan Turbill

Hello,

  

Thanks Darcy. I have been mulling over your introductory question as I watched Australia beat New 
Zealand in cricket. I know many of my audience would not be interested in cricket (most likely my 
friend Wendy isn't either) or even know what it is. I love it! And Australia hasn't been beaten all 
summer -  most importantly we beat England!!

So to the question. I have to say that for much of my own schooling and my early teaching I had few 
positive experiences with writing. I perceived myself to be a poor writer (and this included handwriting
I often thought if I could be a better handwriter I would be a better writer) at school and then as a 
teacher of young children. At school I marveled at my friends who seemed to be able to produce these 
great poems and stories when I was still trying to find something to write about. 

As a young teacher I hated teaching writing as much as my second graders hated doing it. What
changed? My mentor Bob Walshe (I dedicated my part of the book Wendy and I wrote to Bob) helped 
me understand that first you have to have a reason, a purpose to write, you have to have something 
to say and you have to have an audience in mind for the writing. 

Second, he helped me understand that when you have something to say then get it down because you
can't do anything with the writing until the meaning is down in the words and sentences and that one 
shouldn't worry too much about this - just get the thoughts on the paper. Donald Murray said writing 
finds its own meaning and your writing often takes you in directions that you didn't initially intend. I 
think this was hard for me to learn and accept. I needed confidence in my writing before I fully 'let go' 
and wrote.  

Third, Bob helped me understand the meaning of a draft and of the importance of revision. Revising 
the writing is the hardest thing to do. It is often frustrating and anxiety producing but I have come to 
learn that the results are well worth the “agony”. Playing with the sentences, the words, moving them 
around on the screen is like weaving a wonderful pattern. I have to say at this point that I now 
compose on screen - the computer has been a wonderful tool for me as a writer.

When I began to understand what it truly meant to be “a writer” and then began to perceive myself as 
a writer, I lost all my previous fears of writing. I then became a teacher of writing, a good teacher - I 
can explain to children writing and how it works because I have “lived” the process, the struggles, the 
joys. I can explain to them how I now “read like a writer” to quote Frank Smith. I will stop when I am 
reading something and reread the sentence, even jot it down in my journal because I like the way the 
author has written something.  

In our book Wendy and I share many of these beliefs and how these are then enacted in the teaching 
of writing. I am a firm believer that to be an effective teacher of writing one must at least “have a go” 
at writing - experience the writing that you ask the children to write.

That's about it for now - it is bedtime here on a very hot evening - it is 10:45pm and still about 85F 
outside. It is going to be another hot one tomorrow. I look forward to some responses when I wake!!

Jan 

Darcy

Dear Jan, Wendy, and Listserve Colleagues,  
 

Jan and Wendy, thanks for your thoughtful responses! And I suspect that most of our Canadian and US
participants are experiencing generally the reverse weather trends you describe!  

I know that there are participants who will want to ask their own questions and perhaps post responses
to what they’ve learned about themselves as writers and teachers of writers and I expect we’ll hear
from more of them soon. But in the meantime, I am going to post a question that I received from
Denise Buckman, a 3^rd grade teacher (thanks, Denise!):  

Thanks for the opportunity to post a question or two.

            I teach third grade.  I am currently using Lucy Calkins Units of Study Grades 3-5.  The
focus of this writing workshop format is narrative writing.  The children begin writing from
their personal experiences.  In the beginning the teacher's role is to conduct a series of mini
workshops to share strategies for developing writing ideas... write about someone who
matters to you... a place that matters to you, etc.

            I am finding it difficult to sustain any real effort from a rather large number of
students.  They don't want to write about their personal experiences.  They don't value this
writing. 

            I am a veteran teacher and my instincts tell me to switch gears, but I really value
the teachings of Lucy Calkins.  Do you have any suggestions or experience in dealing with
children who do not want to write personal narratives?

            Our best stories this year have been fiction for fun stories like the "Great ________
Robberies."  Is there an age group that just does not respond well to the personal narrative? 
What about memoirs? 

Just a reminder, that participants are welcome to send their questions and comments directly to the
listserve and not just through me!
 

As always, and from the rainy and cold (today) coastal area of Washington State,

Darcy

Wendy

Denise,

I have asked myself a similar question in the past and am often asked it in the classrooms where I
work. I immediately think of audience and purpose. Writing does not come easily to some students and
it does take effort, which you are observing is not there for some of your students. We usually start by
getting the students to talk about who they are writing for (the audience) and what the writing is for
(purpose). We then talk about the text type or genre that would achieve that purpose. Do we need to
write a recount? Maybe a procedure? Or should it be a persuasive piece of writing.

Once that is worked out I can help the student(s) review the structure of the text type/genre or help
find a model of whatever they will be writing. If it is narrative we read a few and talk about the
orientation or beginning, discuss the complication etc. Narrative writing is just one of the types of
writing and that in itself has a number of forms-the audience and purpose will determine if we need to
write a story, a ballad, myth etc. So it isn’t really a matter of switching gears...just tweaking what you
are doing a little. Students get very excited about getting their writing to an audience and getting a
response...

Wendy
 

JAN

Denise

I must begin this response by stating that I love Lucy Calkin's work. Her research into early writing 
was very influential in my career, particularly Lessons From a Child (1983), Living Between the Lines 
(with Shelley Harwayne, 1990), and The Art of Teaching Writing (1986,1994). I say this because now I
have to disagree with calling this workshop writing narratives. I would call it personal recount. A 
narrative is fiction - its purpose is to entertain and inform through the building of a story - one that has 
an orientation, complication and resolution and sometimes an end piece of a coda. A narrative is 'made 
up'. It may be based on personal experience but then it moves beyond the “truth”. That is its purpose. 
The workshop you describe here is one that requires the students to 'recount' an experience. It is not 
fiction but real. The purpose of writing a personal recount is to share something that really happened 
and in this case something 'special', 'memorable'. I think for the age you are working with this is rather 
a difficult task as they are at an age when they don't necessarily think their personal experiences are 
worth telling. Another issue may be that they feel “shy”, “embarrassed” about sharing really personal 
things with their peers and teacher. It is not “cool” (is that a word your children use?) As Wendy points 
out it is also important to have the students think about why they are doing the activity. If the purpose
of the using personal experiences was to then turn it into fiction this might change the students' 
engagement.  

Let me share an example. I was working with 5th Grade children and the teacher wanted them to 
“practice” writing description. I decided to use The Twits by Roald Dahl as an example. I read the 
description of Mr. Twit and we discussed how the choice of words made him sound so ugly. I then 
shared a “'personal experience” of a memory I had of an uncle of mine. I loved this uncle dearly but he 
always looked like a scruffbag. I then asked the children if they could think of someone they knew - a 
shopkeeper, a gardener - who they thought looked “scruffy” or “ugly”.  They then had to describe this 
person (one boy described his dog!). I then asked them to share the first draft with a friend. They loved
doing this and I could see how we could have then used this “person” as a character in a narrative.

I think your instincts were right - but maybe too if you discussed the purpose of the workshop and the 
writing more explicitly this might also help. As Wendy says always get the students talking about the 
purpose of the writing and who would be the audience. This begs another question - how do we 
find authentic  audiences? Must we? Or is it sufficient to state that the purpose is to practice
a description  and the audience will be each other?

Good night all. 

Jan 

Cheryl

Good Evening from Colorado,

I have just the opposite problem in my kindergarten classroom. All but one of my students only wants
to write personal narratives. I am teaching a unit on fairy tales and am trying to get the students to
write using make-believe characters, but they do not. We have created classroom books during shared
writing that are wonderful. Is this type of independent writing inappropriate for the
kindergarten level?

Thank you,
Cheryl Shearin

Wendy

Hi Cheryl from Colorado,
  

Great to hear that you are creating some wonderful shared writing with the class. These “books” will no
doubt be popular with the students and will become popular reading material with the children. I think 
it's great making these books and building up wonderful resources in the classroom.

I guess you are doing lots of modeling as well-short focused modeled writing sessions (with teacher 
talk) are very powerful at all ages.

What I have seen done is a shared writing session, writing the orientation for the fairy tale and then in 
small groups the children write a simple complication or a character description. They share those and 
you select one to continue the shared writing...or....construct the fairy tale as shared writing almost to 
the end and get the children to write the resolution in groups or individually. They love this and the talk 
within the groups is as valuable as the writing.

Let's see what Jan and others think. 

Wendy

Kathy

Dear Cheryl.

How much modeling of writing a story do you do?

Peace,

Kathy, Colorado Springs 

Wendy

Hi Cheryl,
  

You have probably been reading the responses regarding modeling-some good ideas from Jan and 
Lorraine. I agree with all they have said about this important strategy. So you can model writing story 
and recount and any other type of writing. I recommend teachers do a short, focused lesson everyday.

Wendy

Cheryl

We begin writing on the first day of school. We begin our writing following our morning exercises, i.e.: 
calendar, alphabet wall, letters of our names. I model writing daily, and as I expect children to write to 
a certain style, I model that style for at least two weeks prior to my expectations. I also ensure that my
students know they will be writing for this purpose.  I pulled a small group yesterday during writing, 
and as we wrote, we discussed how to incorporate a fictitious style into a personal narrative. (I hope 
this makes sense).  This worked quite well.

As for my student who only writes in a fictitious manner, I worked individually with him, and got him 
to write his first personal narrative. It is exciting to see the growth of my students this year in writing.
However, this brings up a new question.  I posed this question to our literacy/writing coach and she 
suggested I post it here.  My situation is that once I get my students writing a story with a beginning, 
middle and end, they become stagnant and do not write more.  I know that they are capable of 
adding details, but should I concentrate on having them add those details, or should I be 
more concerned at making sure that they are using mechanics correctly first?

Thank you all for your comments. 

Cheryl 

Freida

Cheryl,

 

I have a fairy tale reading/ writing unit I use with K and 1. I am a university person so I only have 
them for teaching lessons.  I read books like Bad Boys, M Palatini, True Story of The 3 Little Pigs, J 
Scieszka, Mr. Wolf's Pancakes, J Fearley, you get the idea. Then we talk about other fairy tales we 
know, choose one and write a story together from the point of view of the "other" characters in the 
fairy tales.  Then the interns continue the discussions with the children about fairy tales and the 
children pair write stories from different character points of view eventually getting to writing a fairy
tale of their own.  In these grades it takes time, often the whole semester, and many days of model, 
talk, draw, take dictation, but the end product is a great story that students proudly read from the 
author's chair. 

We write what we read, what we talk about, and what we hear, keep reading and talking about fairy 
tales and they will write about them. 

Freida Golden

Wendy

Thanks Freida

-More good ideas! We also stress that reading/writing connections and wrote an entire chapter on it in 
our book because of the critical role it plays. Thanks for adding that to the conversation.
  

Wendy

Cheryl

Freida, 
   

Thank you.  The growth of the majority of my students this year has exceeded any in the past, and I 
needed the reminder that repetition is vital.  I am also going to implement your idea of the "pair write".
This may be the needed step.

Cheryl 

Wendy

Cheryl,
  

It sounds like you scaffold the writing in your class very well-a great example of moving from teacher 
teaching to independence for the writer. I think this is something that sometimes does not happen in 
classrooms. The leap from teacher modeling or shared writing to independent writing is too quick for 
some young writers. Your posting reminds me of how important it is to individualize our teaching.

Your question is also a good one and Freida gave some good ideas in her posting. Another thing I have 
seen work is Writer's or Author's Circle (Jan calls it Helping Circle which I now prefer too) which we 
make mention of when we wrote about the Basics of Writing. It requires good modeling of responding 
to writing, that is, good questions. (If you use this and listen to the kids it will give you an idea what 
you sound like to the children).

Basically in groups of 3 each child reads their writing and the others ask questions. The small group 
acts like the first audience for the piece. With the young children you teach I would do lots of short 
whole class or small group modeling to give them an idea of the process and the benefits. Because the 
writer is reading aloud the focus will not be on the surface features of the writing but on the meaning 
which is what we are after.

Good luck-it sounds like your writing classroom is a terrific place to be.

Wendy

Cheryl

Wendy, 
  

Thank you for the idea of the Helping Circle.  We already have a time set aside each day for author's 
chair, but I had not considered having them break into small groups for suggestions. I believe that this
will help my students' writing become more valuable and focused on detail. I also believe that this will 
enable my students to utilize the skills we have worked so hard to develop in cooperative groups.

Cheryl

Jan

Dear all

This is an interesting thread of discussion for me. It demonstrates the difference in terminology used in
the Australia and US. Not that it matters as long we each know what we are talking about. I would call
what Cheryl refers to as 'personal' narratives, “personal recount”. A recount for me is what it says - we 
re-count or re-tell our personal stories. A recount is factual or at least based in the reality of 'what I 
did'. It is mostly written in the past tense as we share with others something we did or experienced. 
They can be written in the first person (autobiographies) also in the third person (newspaper reports or 
news happenings). A narrative is fictional often based in the reality of the author but it always has 
characters who are introduced to us in the orientation or beginning. Some problem or 'complication' 
occurs which then needs to be solved -  a resolution. Fairy tales are classic narratives.

So Cheryl what you call a personal narrative I would call a personal recount. Now that we have shared 
meanings around terminology let me return to your comment about your Kindergarten children. It is 
highly likely that this age group will want to write about themselves and what has happened to them. That is 
part of the developmental stage they are in. It doesn’t mean they cannot write a fictional narrative but 
it is harder for them. Freida's suggested strategies are powerful ones to scaffold the Kindergarten 
children's writing of genres other than the personal narrative (recount).

I saw in a Kindergarten where the teacher used cut out characters of the fairy tales and created probe 
questions. Children could choose one of the cut out characters and “tell” what happened. Questions 

might be:  

Where was your character?  What happened to your character? What did she/he do? How did your 
character fix the problem? 

I remember one little girl had chosen Cinderella and her narrative went something like this. 

Cinderella was in the forest. She saw the bear’s house.  

They scared Cinderella and she never went there again.

Some ideas to think upon.

Freida

Jan,

I love talking about the different terminology.  I do find that K-1 students need to write about
themselves, but even more so in the adolescent grades.  We are fairly lucky in that our standard
testing allows them to use personal narratives or recounts.  Our teachers have problems with what
they call "bed to bed" stories, I got up, this is what I did, and then I went to bed. So we introduce
"problem" into the writing through fairy tales.  Thanks for your fairy tale character ideas, this is great.

Freida Golden

Wendy

Hi,

I read 'bed to bed' stories from to time to time but have never heard them called that-very cute! A 
nice idea for children to write about themselves for a purpose is, at the beginning of the year, to take 
a photograph of every child and have them write about themselves to put in a book for the teacher. 
The teacher says...write

about yourself...write what you would like me to know about you in order for us to start the year. I 
have also seen this done when a new child joins the class mid year; each child writes to introduce 
themselves so the new person can take the book home the first night and read about all of his/her new 
classmates.

It is wonderful to see what they write. We would call this descriptive writing.

Wendy

Freida

Wendy, 
  

What a great idea and in our assessment driven world that would be such an effective assessment if it 
were done at the beginning and at the end of the year. 

Freida 

Christine

Dear Jan, Wendy, et. al.,
  

It is truly interesting how the teaching of writing has changed during my lifetime.  As a first grader, I 
could not write until I knew how to read.  If we wrote anything, it was copied and that was for the 
purpose of learning handwriting.  Now children are encouraged to write before they read and most 
children have a much richer immersion in language as infants.

I have recently been working with fourth graders on revision.  It seems so difficult for them to 
accomplish their revisions independently.  If they read it out loud to an adult, they often see their 
errors, but don't find them in peer conferences or on their own.  What techniques have you found 
to be successful for students in  the revision process?  Do you think students should revise 
on screen?  We have them do revisions on paper then have them do the changes on screen. 
Most do not compose on screen.  Also, what are your thoughts on the impact of computers 
on student writing?

From the frigid and snowy Chicago area where the Bears (National  

Football Conference) won today.

Christine Seidman

Literacy Facilitator

Wendy

Hi Christine,
 

Nice to read a comment from Chicago. I visited your city last year for the IRA conference and just 
loved it. I only had one day to “play”' and plan to spend some more time there. The architecture is 
fantastic.

Interesting reading your comments-yes things have certainly changed as you point out. Our schools 
are about to return and I love spending some time with those gorgeous little kids starting school and 
observing their writing. The range is always fascinating depending on their experiences prior to
beginning school.

Revision can be difficult-I was struggling with just that yesterday with a research paper I was writing. 
I was reminded how hard it is when all you want is to be finished! I guess the children feel like that too 
especially if there is no real purpose (in their mind) for the writing...I struggled on and made the effort 
because I needed to present the paper to a company I am doing some work for!

So if it is so hard how do we inspire our students to engage in revision? If I think about my experience 
yesterday I was spurred on by my audience. As a reread and revised I was trying to read it with “their” 
eyes. Students can do that too. There is a piece of writing in our book called Duckmaloi Park (p.73). 
Olivia was in Year 4 and wrote a persuasive piece of writing as she wanted others to know about a 
wonderful place she had gone for a weekend. The teacher suggested she send it to the owner of 
Duckmaloi Park. Luckily, she got a response and the owner said she wanted to use the first paragraph 
in her new brochure! While this was a thrill for Olivia it was an important moment for the rest of the 
class too-the response gave them all a sense of audience. Of course as writers we are not always so 
lucky and our students will learn that too. What started to emerge though was that the students 
started to take more notice of each other’s writing...that is peer conferencing became more “'serious”. 
They started to see that they were the first audience for the writing happening in that class.

I will think more about your questions around technology...what do you think

Jan?

Wendy

Lorraine

Hello Jan, Wendy, and Christine,

I am enjoying the conversations re children learning to write and thought I might share my thinking on
the power of teacher demonstrations on children's capacity to revise their writing. In each writing 
lesson I demonstrate some authentic writing, large on a chart with children observing. I work on the 
one piece of writing over several or many lessons depending on the purpose and audience and text 
type.

Sometimes during the drafting process and certainly when the draft is complete I take time re-reading 
aloud the draft and focus on,  a line of a poem, or a sentence from narrative, or the general statement 
of introduction of a report, and verbalize my thinking

             E.g. Ugh! That word has too many syllables. It interrupts the flow of the poem. 

             This line needs re-writing.

            This sentence has unnecessary words. I need to tighten the language.

            I don't think this information is needed. I'll get rid of it.

Where a sentence needs re-writing I orally try out some alternate sentences. Perhaps just re-arranging 
the existing words. Then I ask if any of the students have a better way of re- writing the sentence. 
Orally several students have a go. With the original text large and visible to all students they are able 
to compare the oral re-drafts with the original. They learn about the flexibility of language.

Plus, sometimes I use the students as demonstrators, revising their own writing. (This is only done 
where the student is willing to revise in front of the whole group). Always this is done, with a reminder 
to all that we are members of a writing community - that we support one another. I will have written a 
small section of the child's piece large on a chart or the student will have done this. The text is read 
aloud and a problem identified:

            E.g. repetition …..and then..... and then..... and then....

            Empty vacuous words...went … went…. Went… said

            Lots of unnecessary information.

The child has time to silently re-read the small section of text which is displayed, and then orally re-
drafts it, with all listening. I find the oral re-drafts from the writer are just so superior to the written 
draft. Other students are then given a turn to offer alternate re-drafting or revisions to the writer. The 
children really enjoy this process. It is left to the writer to determine which changes if any, he/she will 
make.

Jan and Wendy I wish you both all the best with your book.

From sunny Melbourne.

Lorraine

Christine

Lorraine, Jan and Wendy,

Thank you for the suggestions.  Modeling is key to the writing process and your example is a way that 
the whole class can participate.  I think that we haven't done enough modeling with verbalized thinking.
Both must be present.

Thank you all.  This process is most informative.  Thank you Jan and Wendy for providing this arena 
with your realistic input. I was at your session at IRA, Chicago and have been touting your book ever 
since.

Christine

Wendy

Thanks Christine

-I am happy you like the book-very dedicated of you to be at the last session of the 
conference!! I agree with you again. Modeled writing is the key. It is such a powerful strategy for any 
age group. Lorraine's example great to read- a few reminders there about the need to be focused and 
how the teacher must think about the language he/she uses. Thanks for adding that to the 
conversation, Lorraine, as I was reading it I felt like I was almost watching you doing a lesson!

Wendy

Jeri

Thanks in advance – I have a problem with the purpose to direct student writing….. I teach 3^rd grade
and I find they want to put the purpose as 1) the teacher told me to; 2) to prepare for the CSAP; or 3)
to tell about my trip etc.  I am looking for a deeper purpose. How do I explain this to students?

Jeri Trujillo  

Wendy

Hi Jeri,

I also hear those comments from students when I am in classrooms. I sit down with them to read their
writing and ask who is the audience for this piece?...I often get the answers you gave.  I have learned
a lot from Shelley Harwayne’s books about developing a culture for writing-I think this is what Mrs. A
achieved (one of the case studies in our book). I am amazed watching the children in that classroom. I
was invited in to speak to them as an author and they were very interested in what I had to say. When
I asked them to talk to me about their writing and share some of it they gave each other the same
level of respect and attention they gave me...they genuinely see each other as writers!
In Lifetime Guarantees (2000), Shelley Harwayne says “school culture can either support or hinder the
teaching of writing. It is easier to write and teach writing where there exists
                  € a caring social tone
                  € a commitment to using time wisely
                  € authentic uses for student writing
                  € access to literature
                  € a deep respect for language
                  € a love of story
                  € a genuine curiosity about the world
                  € a passion for good writing
                  € a deep respect for childhood”
 
This is a great list and one I come back to regularly and think about-the authentic uses jumps out at
me but it does not stand alone. Sometimes the purpose is for assessment and we tell them so.
However if there has been lots of writing for authentic purposes they can accept that and apply what
they have learned to the assessment piece.

I will be interested to read what others say about this and how they cope with the tension between
what you want to do as a teacher of writing and what you have to do for accountability.

Wendy

JERI

Wendy – You have opened my eyes.

I have something to work towards now.  What a difference these make in my ideas of purpose.  
Thank you so much.

Jeri

Lenny

Jan & Wendy (& fellow listserve participants),

Thank you so much for taking time to share your thoughts and questions on the listserve!  I just 
recently read your book and really appreciate the focus of your third chapter.  It is so helpful to be 
reminded of the changes that have taken place in writing instruction during the past few decades.  As 
an instructor of undergraduates, I really believe it is important for pre-service teachers, as well as for 
all of us, to know how past research and trends have influenced current theory and practice.  One 
addition I wondered about for your section called 'writing as a social process' in the third 
chapter is the crit